What little myths did Rick Warren, in his address at a certain conference, let slip through the cracks?
Many others, including Chris Rosebrough of Pirate Christian Radio, have already pointed out the biggest problems. Warren is a Pelagian, Rosebrough noted, and thus that assumption about human nature underlies all Warren teaches. His sermons, deeds, ministry, anything, assume the notion that humans can simply learn a truth and thus change their moral behavior.
But while listening to Rosebrough’s rundown of Warren’s message, I kept also hearing more little lies. It seems that even while trying to talk about the battle for Christians’ minds, Warren is allowing several wrong beliefs to influence his moral behavior and judgment.
What follows are some more errors, often very subtle, in Warren’s assumptions and quotations.
For the sake of time, I’ll mostly limit them to those I haven’t yet heard specifically rebutted.
Warren started with descriptions of difficulties in his life — the most recent of which was a family’s member’s illness, which prevented him from attending the conference live.
I’m confident that God has given me a message. I believe that Satan didn’t want me to teach it to you, and I believe that Satan didn’t want you to hear it.
Myth 1: We can make a good guess that the Devil is causing specific bad things.
It’s already hard enough to figure out what God’s up to, and He’s revealed so much about Himself. But we do know He is working despite whatever the Devil does, and even through what the Devil does. It is very risky to say “the Devil is doing this.” Why not cut out the middle man and try to discern why God is allowing difficulties to happen?
Myth 2: If it’s bad, hurting me, preventing ministry, etc., the Devil must be doing it.
The Devil is not even equally as powerful as God. Even if he is behind a difficult circumstance, shouldn’t we disclaim that God is more sovereign and not even partly endorse the subtle suspicion that God only causes good things to happen?
I have seen the face of mental illness. I have seen what it’s like to see people not able to hear God because their minds are broken and aren’t connecting to God even when they want to connect to God.
Myth 3: God often speaks directly to our minds.
This isn’t stated, but heavily implied. I hope Warren is not endorsing the belief that in addition to the final revelation of Scripture, God directs His people by use of inner “nudges” or subtle directions about His will. Warren could have easily said that it’s tragic when people undergo mental illness and aren’t able to study God’s Word or pray to Him in response.
I know that whatever gets your mind gets you. …
Myth 4: Our battle is primarily against evil’s assault from outside, not from inside.
“Jesus said, by the way, that sin comes out of a person,” Rosebrough cut in. “It develops inside of his heart. It comes from within” (Mark 7).
The battle for sin always starts in the mind. […] Every one of us has a mental illness.
This leaves out the truth that nonbelievers have sinful hearts, and even Christians fight most of the battle in their own hearts. (Even posters for the film Spider-Man 3 echoed this truth.)
Yes, the Devil is a liar and he causes temptations. Scripture is clear that much of our battle is external (cf. Eph. 6). But without understanding what’s in our hearts, sin, people will go around swatting at demons and imagining only external sources of sin, while the worst source festers inside. That applies to Christians, who still fight against sin-shrapnel, but even more so to non-Christians who must be first raised from spiritual death and resurrected to life in Christ (Eph. 2).
Why not at least distinguish between non-Christians whose chief problem is mainly in the heart, and Christians who are saved but who still fight wrong thinking? That would have been helpful.
But after so much damage done by Christians who assume if you aren’t a Christian, you must have simply not heard the right information! or even, non-Christians are basically good and just need to have their thinking corrected, it’s sad to hear Warren repeating these errors.
The reason we have so many ineffective Christians today is because they don’t know how to fight the battle of the mind.
Myth 5: We have so many ineffective Christians today.
That many people claim to be “Christians” and are ineffective is undisputed. Many others would dispute their claim to be Christians. Why not at least make allowance for false believers?
Myth 6: We must address battle-of-mind issues based on (a) perceived Problem(s).
Several times Warren goes on to talk about how Christians are failing, what the church is doing wrong, how we too often learn all this stuff but don’t apply it, etc. His rhetoric is all based on generalizations; he doesn’t even back up his claim with Barna surveys. Either way, this could be the result of Ministry Myopia. Here are the Problems I’ve seen in my ministry (views that often lead to more exposure only to these problems, because of a leader’s specific focus) so therefore they must be the same all over. Furthermore, we must do all we can to Fix the Problems.
Warren floats over several Scripture texts, emphasizing obedience, an implicit goal not of fixing our eyes on Christ, but Fixing the Problem. This leads to Law, either God’s true Law — which is fulfilled in Christ — or manmade Law, not the fact of dead hearts and our need for the Gospel.
Now the old cliché from the computer early days, GIGO, “garbage in, garbage out,” is still true today. The amount of garbage you put in is what you’re gonna get out.
Myth 7: Wrong thinking comes primarily from external sources.
This is very similar to myth 4. Warren has some good things to say about discernment, but citing this catchphrase without a foundation of humans’ sinful nature repeats a myth promoted by conservative and liberal professing Christians: if you put sin inside you, it will come out from you. Its implication: your main job is to avoid sinful Stuff. Its refutation: same as above, Mark 7. Jesus did not endorse that notion. He said garbage inside your heart comes out.
Warren even sounds like a dreaded “fundamentalist” when he talks about Christians needing to avoid junk in movies and on TV. He doesn’t say Christians do this mainly to honor God, but to Avoid Bad Stuff. Again it’s an emphasis on Fixing the Problem, not on glorifying God — and ignores the true source of sin, which doesn’t come from a Thing, but from the heart.
And here we thought it was only big bad Al Mohler and other “fundamentalists” who say this.
(Likely continued on Wednesday. …)
The Devil has the power to stop God from sending a direct message to a preacher? Am I hearing this right? Unfortunately, Pelagianism is a belief structure that upholds the power and will of everyone, including Satan, with the exception being God.
Okay, I haven’t seen any videos or heard any audio on the conference, so I’m going strictly off the quoted text in this post, Stephen.
It seems that even while trying to talk about the battle for Christians’ minds, Warren is allowing several wrong beliefs to influence his moral behavior and judgment.
I gotta ask, friend: Isn’t mental illness internal? Or are you likening it to someone bashing me on the head, giving me brain damage?
Not that I’m a huge fan of sin as a simple mental illness, regardless.
Why not cut out the middle man and try to discern why God is allowing difficulties to happen?
I don’t necessarily consider either a good question, to be honest. Little drives me as crazy as blaming God for everything bad and taking personal credit for everything good. At least by blaming the devil it’s cutting out a little of the facade. And I think Job was pretty clear that, sometimes, it really is the Devil.
Myth 3: God often speaks directly to our minds.
This isn’t stated, but heavily implied. I hope Warren is not endorsing the belief that in addition to the final revelation of Scripture, God directs His people by use of inner “nudges” or subtle directions about His will. Warren could have easily said that it’s tragic when people undergo mental illness and aren’t able to study God’s Word or pray to Him in response.
I know that whatever gets your mind gets you. …
I’m kinda confused here on a couple points. One, I’m not sure how the comment fits the cited text (unless the quotes are all one piece). Two, while, yes, it’s no secret the burning bush only happens once, I don’t think it’s correct either to say that God never verbally speaks or impresses on the minds and hearts of his children.
Myth 4: Our battle is primarily against evil’s assault from outside, not from inside.
“Jesus said, by the way, that sin comes out of a person,” Rosebrough cut in. “It develops inside of his heart. It comes from within” (Mark 7).
The battle for sin always starts in the mind. […] Every one of us has a mental illness.
This leaves out the truth that nonbelievers have sinful hearts, and even Christians fight most of the battle in their own hearts. (Even posters for the film Spider-Man 3 echoed this truth.)
I guess, again, I’m not sure where the quoted text is assuming Christians don’t have sin inside their own hearts. And I don’t know much about Warren, but it’d seem a little odd to me for him to believe in sinless Christianity.
Why not at least make allowance for false believers?
It’s a viable option, but it’s also one that shouldn’t be leveled lightly, either. I don’t use heretic, charlatan, or unbeliever lightly. Know?
As for “effectiveness,” we could probably make a whole new post just for that.
Myth 6: We must address battle-of-mind issues based on (a) perceived Problem(s).
Several times Warren goes on to talk about how Christians are failing, what the church is doing wrong, how we too often learn all this stuff but don’t apply it, etc. His rhetoric is all based on generalizations; he doesn’t even back up his claim with Barna surveys. Either way, this could be the result of Ministry Myopia. Here are the Problems I’ve seen in my ministry (views that often lead to more exposure only to these problems, because of a leader’s specific focus) so therefore they must be the same all over. Furthermore, we must do all we can to Fix the Problems.
Warren floats over several Scripture texts, emphasizing obedience, an implicit goal not of fixing our eyes on Christ, but Fixing the Problem. This leads to Law, either God’s true Law — which is fulfilled in Christ — or manmade Law, not the fact of dead hearts and our need for the Gospel.
Now the old cliché from the computer early days, GIGO, “garbage in, garbage out,” is still true today. The amount of garbage you put in is what you’re gonna get out.
Again, I’m not following. While I don’t believe in formula approaches, I don’t see:
a) anything wrong with a call to obedience to Christ, or,
b) the quote in question, because the reason that saying exists is because they’re some truth to it. Like I said about reading fiction: No, being around evil doesn’t by default insist you’ll do evil, but it does make it easier to be tempted.
“Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.”
Myth 7: Wrong thinking comes primarily from external sources.
This is very similar to myth 4. Warren has some good things to say about discernment, but citing this catchphrase without a foundation of humans’ sinful nature repeats a myth promoted by conservative and liberal professing Christians: if you put sin inside you, it will come out from you.
I don’t know that you can, actually, do that. You can jump headlong in front of temptation and sin; you can simply sit play along the rails and not move when it comes; or you can actively resist. All of that requires both internal and external.
Its implication: your main job is to avoid sinful Stuff. Its refutation: same as above, Mark 7. Jesus did not endorse that notion. He said garbage inside your heart comes out.
“Submit yourself to God, therefore; resist the devil, and he will flee from you.”
Warren even sounds like a dreaded “fundamentalist” when he talks about Christians needing to avoid junk in movies and on TV.
Eh, I won’t rehash old ground. I made my thoughts pretty clear on SpecFaith.
He doesn’t say Christians do this mainly to honor God, but to Avoid Bad Stuff. Again it’s an emphasis on Fixing the Problem, not on glorifying God — and ignores the true source of sin, which doesn’t come from a Thing, but from the heart.
Yeah, I kinda think I’m missing something, as I haven’t heard the transcripts.
Anyway. Your friendly neighborhood pest, signing off. 0=)
“Pest”? Not at all, Kaci.
Hope to write more in response later, but in short it’s not so much what Warren said as what he did not say that makes his message problematic. So far even when reading a clear verse about the human heart being the source of sin, such as Jer. 17:9:
Warren just skips over the whole totally-depraved human heart thing. For this verse — I didn’t write it here because Rosebrough talked about it — Warren said here’s what this verse means, then he did reduce sin to a mental problem by giving only one possible meaning of the verse: people can tell lies to themselves.
Of course this is true! But is it the verse’s only meaning, really? This seems more the result of topic-based preaching if nothing else: he has his hammer, to Fix the Problem, and thus goes looking around in Scripture for nails to hit. It doesn’t make him a heretic, or a thoroughly false preacher, or mean that all he says is wrong or anything like that — it just means there’s some Ministry Myopia at work. Exegetical preaching could help.
He doesn’t even casually mention something like “now we know that without Christ the human heart is sinful, and that causes symptoms such as believing lies, or telling ourselves lies. But tonight I’m concentrating on that latter parts.” That would have fixed it. Yet he hasn’t even mentioned that; he’s only talked about how people sin because they believe lies. Where, then, does the blame ultimately go? The Devil. It lessens human responsibility for our sinful hearts, regardless of his motivation in repeating this.
To clarify: when I say “Pelagian” above — Rosebrough brings this out kindly and most effectively in the broadcast, which I very much recommend — I’m referring to the notion that mankind is morally “neutral.” It is not a sin nature but External Factors that pressure him into choosing to sin. Simply believe differently, and you can change, Pelagius said.
And I think many Christians act this way despite their theology — I know I do! Again, that just re-confirms Pelagianism’s error, because even though we believe a certain way, our hearts can still excuse sin as being sourced by Things or other people, etc.
According to Rosebrough, Warren is on record saying he believes people sin because they believe wrong things. That assumption is the key to understanding all the eyebrow-raising statements in his message, Rosebrough said. And yes, this isn’t some conspiracy, but once you listen it starts to fall into place. That’s why Warren only talks about the Devil-did-this side of sin. That’s why he minimizes the doctrine of inherited sin and focuses only on the it’s-a-battle-for-your-mind side of things.
More to come later, though perhaps that might have helped clarify things somewhat?
Hope to write more in response later,
Eh, you saw how long it took me to come back.
but in short it’s not so much what Warren said as what he did not say that makes his message problematic…Of course this is true! But is it the verse’s only meaning, really?
Well, certainly, there’s more going on with that verse than just that. I dunno. My supposition is that if the other speaker was going to discuss it, Warren might not have felt it necessary to cover the same ground again.
This seems more the result of topic-based preaching if nothing else: he has his hammer, to Fix the Problem, and thus goes looking around in Scripture for nails to hit. It doesn’t make him a heretic, or a thoroughly false preacher, or mean that all he says is wrong or anything like that — it just means there’s some Ministry Myopia at work. Exegetical preaching could help.
Topic-based preaching isn’t a problem if it’s done correctly. Some subjects are just easier to cross-reference than others. While I’ve developed a leaning, myself, toward studying whole books (and will always have a peeve against ripping a half a sentence out of context), I’d say the issues with topic-based are more due to laziness or ignorance than study style.
Per the second part, I think that’s where I keep getting a little lost, to be honest. Either he’s spinning half truths or he isn’t, I suppose. And half truths are lies.
He doesn’t even casually mention something like “now we know that without Christ the human heart is sinful, and that causes symptoms such as believing lies, or telling ourselves lies. But tonight I’m concentrating on that latter parts.” That would have fixed it. Yet he hasn’t even mentioned that; he’s only talked about how people sin because they believe lies. Where, then, does the blame ultimately go? The Devil. It lessens human responsibility for our sinful hearts, regardless of his motivation in repeating this.
But that wouldn’t fully satisfy the problem, Stephen. If the heart is completely devoid of even trying or desiring good things, then it’s still ultimately absolving man of his sin because “he can’t help it.” Moreover, even saying we’re self-deceived isn’t entirely absolving: The human heart can justify anything, and I justify sin in my heart long before I commit the act. That, then, is self-deception. Or denial. Or both. Self-deception is denial, in a way, I suppose. And deception is sin, even if you do it to yourself.
Then, hey, I’m admittedly a weirdo who finds both polarizations of the sovereignty/free will debate wrong. But I’m weird. And this is a bit tangential. At any rate, I will say: I think maybe it’d make your case stronger to say that a man can stare the truth in the face, accept it, and still sin. I really don’t think Adam and Eve sinned by accident. I know nine times out of ten, I’m aware of what I’m doing when I do it. That’s what makes it so horrible.
So, a stronger case might be to say that even with the blinders off, a man can still sin.
To clarify: when I say “Pelagian” above — Rosebrough brings this out kindly and most effectively in the broadcast, which I very much recommend — I’m referring to the notion that mankind is morally “neutral.” It is not a sin nature but External Factors that pressure him into choosing to sin. Simply believe differently, and you can change, Pelagius said.
And I think many Christians act this way despite their theology — I know I do! Again, that just re-confirms Pelagianism’s error, because even though we believe a certain way, our hearts can still excuse sin as being sourced by Things or other people, etc.
Ah, ok. Personally, I’ve kinda drawn an “I-don’t-know” line around that one. At some point I’d been given four possibilities and found problems with all four.
I was always suspicious in my sociology classes for the reasons you mentioned: If we are the sum of our environment, then we are, in fact absolved. It doesn’t take into account that people on the whole are more complicated than that.”
For me personally, it’s this bizarre, bipolar humanity in which I teeter between seeing beautiful people made in the Imago Dei, and a dark, twisted, disgusting depravity with no depth.
I guess the truth is, even the ocean has a bottom, and God scoops it up in the hollow of his hand.
According to Rosebrough, Warren is on record saying he believes people sin because they believe wrong things. That assumption is the key to understanding all the eyebrow-raising statements in his message, Rosebrough said. And yes, this isn’t some conspiracy, but once you listen it starts to fall into place. That’s why Warren only talks about the Devil-did-this side of sin. That’s why he minimizes the doctrine of inherited sin and focuses only on the it’s-a-battle-for-your-mind side of things.
Ah, got it. It’s more an oversimplification than anything else.
Kaci,
Just wrote another column in which I tried to address some of the foundational issues leading to many half-truths-turned-lies. I wish I’d thought to use the phrase “half-truth” there, and perhaps that will help clarify my views (even if we end up not agreeing on this!).
Let me address one point that may otherwise get lost in the shuffle:
That’s a logical inference from the Biblical truth that God commands men to repent. If He wants them to do something, they ought to be able at least to try, right?
Yet the same Word that commands men to repent and love the Lord our God with everything we have, also faults humans for having a total inability to do this apart from Him. This gets into sticky stuff like predestination-and-free-will, so I won’t try to delve into all that here. But in short: the Bible never lets man off the hook because “he can’t help it.” At the same time it says man is utterly unable to please God apart from faith (Romans 14:23 for starters).
Paul recognized this could look like God was playing world with a stacked deck (that’s my The Message-style rendition of Romans 9). But the apostle’s main point was not “well, this logically follows from that,” but actually an appeal to authority that would be logically fallacious were the authority not God Himself.
But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”
Yet at the same time, man is responsible for his sin — not God, who does not sin.
I believe it was Jonathan Edwards who still has an unrebutted argument for how the two truths coincide: man has a free will, to be certain, but is a slave to his inherited sin nature. Thus though he has the ability to make meaningful choices, he is restricted by his nature.
Briefly back to Warren: as before, I don’t deny sin entails deceiving ourselves. But Warren skips over the total-depravity-of-the-heart parts and emphasizes the sin-is-all-in-the-mind part. Where we have a heart disease, he recommends Band-aids for surface cuts to the head. Now of course, for Christians, we need not worry as much about the inward nature; we are no longer totally depraved and meet God’s approval because of Christ’s life and death. But even Christians need to be reminded of how the Gospel affects how we think. Warren, sadly, did not even give a passing mention to the Gospel — and thus may be guilty of preaching a “half-truth” that turns into a lie. That’s the topic of today’s column.
Hope this is helpful, and not condemning of Warren. He has such gifts and charisma, for sure. As I do many other Christian leaders who are so close to the Gospel and yet miss it, I hope God will work His will despite Warren’s failings, and truly transform his heart and mind, so he will actually proclaim all of the Gospel he claims to believe and study.
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