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	<title>Comments for Ye Have Heard</title>
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	<link>http://www.yehaveheard.com</link>
	<description>Myths Christians believe, debunked logically, lovingly, and (best of all) Biblically.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 15:50:27 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on An open letter to newbie homeschoolers by E. Stephen Burnett</title>
		<link>http://www.yehaveheard.com/2009/12/an-open-letter-to-newbie-homeschoolers/comment-page-1/#comment-63713</link>
		<dc:creator>E. Stephen Burnett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 15:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yehaveheard.com/?p=126#comment-63713</guid>
		<description>Ruth,

First, I apologize for a delay in responding. Due to my efforts at the Christian-speculative-fiction-focused SpeculativeFaith.com website, YeHaveHeard has unfortunately fallen by the wayside. Your comment reminded me of the continuing need to write on topics like this. Thanks for posting it, and I hope this helps.

My background: I’m a lifelong Christian, journalist, web designer, husband, and an aspiring fiction author. Perhaps more helpful to you, I’m a member of a solid, Gospel-proclaiming and –living local church.

Second, I’m very, &lt;em&gt;very&lt;/em&gt; sorry to hear of your situation. Even over long-distance, it makes me angry and wish I could do more to help — both to practice &lt;em&gt;justice&lt;/em&gt; against sin that honors God and strengthens His Church (as in 1 Cor. 5), and to be a reflection of the grace of our slain and risen Christ, Who has taken the penalty for sins and now through His Spirit &lt;em&gt;changes us from the inside out&lt;/em&gt;. (We do &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; change ourselves!)

In the rest, I’ll interact with your thoughts in a style approximating a real-life conversation.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Any helpful links to therapy, or emergency help, for women who are trying to change things in their household in regards to un-Biblical patriarchalism?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I’ll do my best. Of course, long-range help can only go so far. Take what I offer, interact if you like, and Lord willing, find a local and Biblical, Gospel-proclaiming and –living church that can help you even more.
&lt;blockquote&gt;For 22 years I have been trying to get help for our marriage from church leadership with their only answer being &quot;change yourself&quot;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Mind if I ask what kind of church that is, that would not point to Scripture, Christ, His grace and the Gospel (according to your word here)? Again I would suggest: find a more-Biblical church that points not to human willpower to fix surface problems, but the flawed human heart (Romans 7) that needs the Spirit’s work! Nine Marks Ministries, whose &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.9marks.org/what-are-the-9marks/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;statement of faith&lt;/a&gt; is Biblical and available, has a fairly good database of such churches, as they identify themselves, across the U.S. This is at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.9marks.org/churchsearch/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.9marks.org/churchsearch/&lt;/a&gt; .
&lt;blockquote&gt;I&#039;ve armed myself with books about control-type men, evil people, demonic warfare,&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Based on Scripture, controlling folks, with evil in their hearts, egged on by demons, are only the sick fruits of the real problem: personal, indwelling sin. Does your husband profess to be a Christian? Has he put away all his own “righteousness” that God counts as “a polluted garment” (Isaiah 64:6), and instead repented and bowed before Christ as the only righteous One Who died for sin and lived for his life? If not, he is not a true follower of Christ. (Of course, I would also ask the same questions of anyone else!)
&lt;blockquote&gt;but am still stuck with someone who treats me as the slave, he does not provide for me or the kids except for food and shelter, he does not recognize my birthday yet we must treat him as special on his day(s), and more. I haven&#039;t left or divorced because of the Christian &quot;law&quot; to submit, which he uses against me even if I am incapacitated medically.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
You may already know of the corresponding Biblical truth that husbands are to love their wives sacrificially just like Christ loved the Church (Ephesians 5). Christ gave His &lt;em&gt;life&lt;/em&gt; for the Church. This tells us two things: 1) Your husband should be willing to die for you, not just literally, but &lt;em&gt;daily&lt;/em&gt;, in Biblical servant-leadership. 2) Your husband is part of Christ’s “bride,” the Church, and therefore should obey the &lt;em&gt;Church&lt;/em&gt;’s Husband. As noted above, is he? As you mention below, it does not sound like it. None of these beliefs are Biblical.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Recently he&#039;s been listening to Messianic teachers online, and one day said to my older boys (now ages 19 and 20) that the Ketubah (Old Covenant) was like a Middle Eastern marriage where the wife just waits to be told what to do and how, and that is how a wife should be. He told my daughter (age 17) that she can never move away, she must stay home to serve him. Lord help us.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
This is un-Biblical. Are you familiar with the book of Galatians? There, the Apostle Paul lashed out at false teachers who were trying to add Jewish Law practices to the Gospel. In his case, these laws, such as for the practice of circumcision, had been &lt;em&gt;fulfilled&lt;/em&gt; in Christ. But in your husband’s case, “patriarchal” treatment of daughters was never even required in Scripture. It is Jewish &lt;em&gt;tradition&lt;/em&gt;. When did Jewish tradition become equivalent to what the Bible says, much less binding on any Christian today? I say this not simply to agree with you in annoyance and outrage, but to confirm that your apparent disagreement with this stuff is valid. However, this stuff is not wrong simply because it’s outrageous and abusive. It’s wrong because it violates Scripture, opposes God’s grace, and draws the focus from Him as our glorious King to &lt;em&gt;self&lt;/em&gt; on the throne.

Again, two approaches may help here. The first would be to continue reading Scripture. Meanwhile, also read books about &lt;em&gt;how&lt;/em&gt; to read Scripture, to try to screen out the mystical, anti-Gospel stuff you may have been hearing. A reader-friendly, basic overview is in the book &lt;em&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/How-Read-Bible-All-Worth/dp/0310246040/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;How to Read the Bible For All Its Worth&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;. Or for a survey of Biblical doctrines, try &lt;em&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Bible-Doctrine-Wayne-Grudem/dp/0310222338/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bible Doctrine&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt; by Wayne Grudem. Another book that helped changed my life and understand &lt;em&gt;why&lt;/em&gt; God does what He does, and the greater reason behind why He loves us, is &lt;em&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Desiring-God-Meditations-Christian-Hedonist/dp/B001TKQWGG/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Desiring God&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt; by John Piper. (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/online-books/desiring-god&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;It’s also absolutely &lt;em&gt;free&lt;/em&gt; online&lt;/a&gt;.) I’ve also benefited much from a book called &lt;em&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Subtle-Power-Spiritual-Abuse-Manipulation/dp/0764201379/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;, which seems specifically written to people like you in such situations.

All that may help you arm you with not just opposition to your husband’s stuff, but with Biblical truth that &lt;em&gt;implicitly&lt;/em&gt; shows that this is false teaching. But far better would be, as I’ve said, would be the second need: finding a local church that teaches the Scripture. At your current church, do they teach the Gospel? Is there a place for church discipline in the way that Jesus describes it (Matthew 18) and Paul echoes (1 Cor. 5)? Do they correct false legalistic teachings as Paul did (Galatians 1-2) and point to the Gospel of grace that leads to changed living, not just to oppose the world, but out of &lt;em&gt;love&lt;/em&gt; for the Christ Who saved us? If not, that is not a Biblical church. Thus, based &lt;em&gt;solely&lt;/em&gt; on my limited information, &lt;strong&gt;that means you would be fully justified, under the authority of Jesus as the Church’s Husband, to find a Biblical church&lt;/strong&gt;. There you can, I hope, begin to heal, get more-Biblical teaching, and “detox” — and get marriage help.

While my role is, again, limited, I’ll do whatever I can to help with that, even long-range.

God bless, and my wife and I will be praying for you and your family, and your husband.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ruth,</p>
<p>First, I apologize for a delay in responding. Due to my efforts at the Christian-speculative-fiction-focused SpeculativeFaith.com website, YeHaveHeard has unfortunately fallen by the wayside. Your comment reminded me of the continuing need to write on topics like this. Thanks for posting it, and I hope this helps.</p>
<p>My background: I’m a lifelong Christian, journalist, web designer, husband, and an aspiring fiction author. Perhaps more helpful to you, I’m a member of a solid, Gospel-proclaiming and –living local church.</p>
<p>Second, I’m very, <em>very</em> sorry to hear of your situation. Even over long-distance, it makes me angry and wish I could do more to help — both to practice <em>justice</em> against sin that honors God and strengthens His Church (as in 1 Cor. 5), and to be a reflection of the grace of our slain and risen Christ, Who has taken the penalty for sins and now through His Spirit <em>changes us from the inside out</em>. (We do <em>not</em> change ourselves!)</p>
<p>In the rest, I’ll interact with your thoughts in a style approximating a real-life conversation.</p>
<blockquote><p>Any helpful links to therapy, or emergency help, for women who are trying to change things in their household in regards to un-Biblical patriarchalism?</p></blockquote>
<p>I’ll do my best. Of course, long-range help can only go so far. Take what I offer, interact if you like, and Lord willing, find a local and Biblical, Gospel-proclaiming and –living church that can help you even more.</p>
<blockquote><p>For 22 years I have been trying to get help for our marriage from church leadership with their only answer being &#8220;change yourself&#8221;.</p></blockquote>
<p>Mind if I ask what kind of church that is, that would not point to Scripture, Christ, His grace and the Gospel (according to your word here)? Again I would suggest: find a more-Biblical church that points not to human willpower to fix surface problems, but the flawed human heart (Romans 7) that needs the Spirit’s work! Nine Marks Ministries, whose <a href="http://www.9marks.org/what-are-the-9marks/" rel="nofollow">statement of faith</a> is Biblical and available, has a fairly good database of such churches, as they identify themselves, across the U.S. This is at <a href="http://www.9marks.org/churchsearch/" rel="nofollow">http://www.9marks.org/churchsearch/</a> .</p>
<blockquote><p>I&#8217;ve armed myself with books about control-type men, evil people, demonic warfare,</p></blockquote>
<p>Based on Scripture, controlling folks, with evil in their hearts, egged on by demons, are only the sick fruits of the real problem: personal, indwelling sin. Does your husband profess to be a Christian? Has he put away all his own “righteousness” that God counts as “a polluted garment” (Isaiah 64:6), and instead repented and bowed before Christ as the only righteous One Who died for sin and lived for his life? If not, he is not a true follower of Christ. (Of course, I would also ask the same questions of anyone else!)</p>
<blockquote><p>but am still stuck with someone who treats me as the slave, he does not provide for me or the kids except for food and shelter, he does not recognize my birthday yet we must treat him as special on his day(s), and more. I haven&#8217;t left or divorced because of the Christian &#8220;law&#8221; to submit, which he uses against me even if I am incapacitated medically.</p></blockquote>
<p>You may already know of the corresponding Biblical truth that husbands are to love their wives sacrificially just like Christ loved the Church (Ephesians 5). Christ gave His <em>life</em> for the Church. This tells us two things: 1) Your husband should be willing to die for you, not just literally, but <em>daily</em>, in Biblical servant-leadership. 2) Your husband is part of Christ’s “bride,” the Church, and therefore should obey the <em>Church</em>’s Husband. As noted above, is he? As you mention below, it does not sound like it. None of these beliefs are Biblical.</p>
<blockquote><p>Recently he&#8217;s been listening to Messianic teachers online, and one day said to my older boys (now ages 19 and 20) that the Ketubah (Old Covenant) was like a Middle Eastern marriage where the wife just waits to be told what to do and how, and that is how a wife should be. He told my daughter (age 17) that she can never move away, she must stay home to serve him. Lord help us.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is un-Biblical. Are you familiar with the book of Galatians? There, the Apostle Paul lashed out at false teachers who were trying to add Jewish Law practices to the Gospel. In his case, these laws, such as for the practice of circumcision, had been <em>fulfilled</em> in Christ. But in your husband’s case, “patriarchal” treatment of daughters was never even required in Scripture. It is Jewish <em>tradition</em>. When did Jewish tradition become equivalent to what the Bible says, much less binding on any Christian today? I say this not simply to agree with you in annoyance and outrage, but to confirm that your apparent disagreement with this stuff is valid. However, this stuff is not wrong simply because it’s outrageous and abusive. It’s wrong because it violates Scripture, opposes God’s grace, and draws the focus from Him as our glorious King to <em>self</em> on the throne.</p>
<p>Again, two approaches may help here. The first would be to continue reading Scripture. Meanwhile, also read books about <em>how</em> to read Scripture, to try to screen out the mystical, anti-Gospel stuff you may have been hearing. A reader-friendly, basic overview is in the book <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/How-Read-Bible-All-Worth/dp/0310246040/" rel="nofollow">How to Read the Bible For All Its Worth</a></em>. Or for a survey of Biblical doctrines, try <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Bible-Doctrine-Wayne-Grudem/dp/0310222338/" rel="nofollow">Bible Doctrine</a></em> by Wayne Grudem. Another book that helped changed my life and understand <em>why</em> God does what He does, and the greater reason behind why He loves us, is <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Desiring-God-Meditations-Christian-Hedonist/dp/B001TKQWGG/" rel="nofollow">Desiring God</a></em> by John Piper. (<a href="http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/online-books/desiring-god" rel="nofollow">It’s also absolutely <em>free</em> online</a>.) I’ve also benefited much from a book called <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Subtle-Power-Spiritual-Abuse-Manipulation/dp/0764201379/" rel="nofollow">The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse</a></em>, which seems specifically written to people like you in such situations.</p>
<p>All that may help you arm you with not just opposition to your husband’s stuff, but with Biblical truth that <em>implicitly</em> shows that this is false teaching. But far better would be, as I’ve said, would be the second need: finding a local church that teaches the Scripture. At your current church, do they teach the Gospel? Is there a place for church discipline in the way that Jesus describes it (Matthew 18) and Paul echoes (1 Cor. 5)? Do they correct false legalistic teachings as Paul did (Galatians 1-2) and point to the Gospel of grace that leads to changed living, not just to oppose the world, but out of <em>love</em> for the Christ Who saved us? If not, that is not a Biblical church. Thus, based <em>solely</em> on my limited information, <strong>that means you would be fully justified, under the authority of Jesus as the Church’s Husband, to find a Biblical church</strong>. There you can, I hope, begin to heal, get more-Biblical teaching, and “detox” — and get marriage help.</p>
<p>While my role is, again, limited, I’ll do whatever I can to help with that, even long-range.</p>
<p>God bless, and my wife and I will be praying for you and your family, and your husband.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Law and love — did Jesus contradict God? by Alex Flores</title>
		<link>http://www.yehaveheard.com/2010/08/law-and-love-did-jesus-contradict-god/comment-page-1/#comment-63497</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Flores</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 20:15:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yehaveheard.com/?p=661#comment-63497</guid>
		<description>I agree. the law was not abolished but rather transferred from stone tablets (which resided in a temple made from human hands) and written upon men&#039;s hearts (which reside in holy temples not made by human hands). All of the Old Testament announces the coming of the Messiah; the one who would accomplish this. Condemnation and the fear of death were conquered at the cross and the resurrection. His lifeand example were the &#039;way&#039; to true life; the fulfillment of the law for there is no greater love than to give your life for another. For when you truly love God with all your heart and when you truly love your neighbor similarly, you are in fact sacrifing yourself for others. Sound easy, but VERY few actually follow this path. Instead, our churches are being taught a false gospel of the love of mammon (money). This is why so few will be counted worthy when Christ comes again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree. the law was not abolished but rather transferred from stone tablets (which resided in a temple made from human hands) and written upon men&#8217;s hearts (which reside in holy temples not made by human hands). All of the Old Testament announces the coming of the Messiah; the one who would accomplish this. Condemnation and the fear of death were conquered at the cross and the resurrection. His lifeand example were the &#8216;way&#8217; to true life; the fulfillment of the law for there is no greater love than to give your life for another. For when you truly love God with all your heart and when you truly love your neighbor similarly, you are in fact sacrifing yourself for others. Sound easy, but VERY few actually follow this path. Instead, our churches are being taught a false gospel of the love of mammon (money). This is why so few will be counted worthy when Christ comes again.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Should Christians &#8216;bind&#8217; Satan? by Momma Fay</title>
		<link>http://www.yehaveheard.com/2010/04/should-christians-bind-satan/comment-page-1/#comment-63401</link>
		<dc:creator>Momma Fay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yehaveheard.com/?p=353#comment-63401</guid>
		<description>I praise The Almighty for the work He is doing through you, and I thank you for being obedient.  All too often the Word of the Lord is taught out of context - even from our nations&#039; pulpits.  It ought not to be so.  If only more would be compelled to study to show themselves approved by rightly dividing the Word.

Thank you, and may God bless this ministry.

Momma Fay</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I praise The Almighty for the work He is doing through you, and I thank you for being obedient.  All too often the Word of the Lord is taught out of context &#8211; even from our nations&#8217; pulpits.  It ought not to be so.  If only more would be compelled to study to show themselves approved by rightly dividing the Word.</p>
<p>Thank you, and may God bless this ministry.</p>
<p>Momma Fay</p>
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		<title>Comment on An open letter to newbie homeschoolers by Ruth S.</title>
		<link>http://www.yehaveheard.com/2009/12/an-open-letter-to-newbie-homeschoolers/comment-page-1/#comment-62618</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruth S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jan 2012 23:26:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yehaveheard.com/?p=126#comment-62618</guid>
		<description>Any helpful links to therapy, or emergency help, for women who are trying to change things in their household in regards to un-Biblical patriarchalism? For 22 years I have been trying to get help for our marriage from church leadership with their only answer being &quot;change yourself&quot;. I&#039;ve armed myself with books about control-type men, evil people, demonic warfare, but am still stuck with someone who treats me as the slave, he does not provide for me or the kids except for food and shelter, he does not recognize my birthday yet we must treat him as special on his day(s), and more. I haven&#039;t left or divorced because of the Christian &quot;law&quot; to submit, which he uses against me even if I am incapacitated medically. Recently he&#039;s been listening to Messianic teachers online, and one day said to my older boys (now ages 19 and 20) that the Ketubah (Old Covenant) was like a Middle Eastern marriage where the wife just waits to be told what to do and how, and that is how a wife should be. He told my daughter (age 17) that she can never move away, she must stay home to serve him. Lord help us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any helpful links to therapy, or emergency help, for women who are trying to change things in their household in regards to un-Biblical patriarchalism? For 22 years I have been trying to get help for our marriage from church leadership with their only answer being &#8220;change yourself&#8221;. I&#8217;ve armed myself with books about control-type men, evil people, demonic warfare, but am still stuck with someone who treats me as the slave, he does not provide for me or the kids except for food and shelter, he does not recognize my birthday yet we must treat him as special on his day(s), and more. I haven&#8217;t left or divorced because of the Christian &#8220;law&#8221; to submit, which he uses against me even if I am incapacitated medically. Recently he&#8217;s been listening to Messianic teachers online, and one day said to my older boys (now ages 19 and 20) that the Ketubah (Old Covenant) was like a Middle Eastern marriage where the wife just waits to be told what to do and how, and that is how a wife should be. He told my daughter (age 17) that she can never move away, she must stay home to serve him. Lord help us.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Seeking grace and truth in politics by Kendra Chou</title>
		<link>http://www.yehaveheard.com/2010/04/seeking-grace-and-truth-in-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-62528</link>
		<dc:creator>Kendra Chou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 12:35:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yehaveheard.com/?p=366#comment-62528</guid>
		<description>625 I just could not depart your site prior to suggesting that I actually enjoyed the standard info an individual provide on your guests? Is going to be again often to inspect new posts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>625 I just could not depart your site prior to suggesting that I actually enjoyed the standard info an individual provide on your guests? Is going to be again often to inspect new posts.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Oh Christmas tree — condemned in Scripture? by E. Stephen Burnett</title>
		<link>http://www.yehaveheard.com/2009/12/oh-christmas-tree-condemned-in-scripture/comment-page-1/#comment-62335</link>
		<dc:creator>E. Stephen Burnett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jan 2012 12:15:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yehaveheard.com/?p=137#comment-62335</guid>
		<description>Thanks for that, &lt;strong&gt;Jerico&#039;s&lt;/strong&gt;. Now, would you like to interact with the already-established refutation of that view? I&#039;ve already shown that Jeremiah 10 has nothing to do with Christmas trees or Christmas traditions.

If you believe that people are held guilty for doing something that &lt;em&gt;other&lt;/em&gt; people used for sin, then what on earth are you doing using a computer? Other people use the computer for gambling, adultery, and pornography. How dare you indulge in this practice with the history that it&#039;s had. Internet use is just porn-seeking with &quot;a different coat.&quot;

I do not agree with that notion at all! But to be consistent, you should.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that, <strong>Jerico&#8217;s</strong>. Now, would you like to interact with the already-established refutation of that view? I&#8217;ve already shown that Jeremiah 10 has nothing to do with Christmas trees or Christmas traditions.</p>
<p>If you believe that people are held guilty for doing something that <em>other</em> people used for sin, then what on earth are you doing using a computer? Other people use the computer for gambling, adultery, and pornography. How dare you indulge in this practice with the history that it&#8217;s had. Internet use is just porn-seeking with &#8220;a different coat.&#8221;</p>
<p>I do not agree with that notion at all! But to be consistent, you should.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Oh Christmas tree — condemned in Scripture? by Jerico's flower</title>
		<link>http://www.yehaveheard.com/2009/12/oh-christmas-tree-condemned-in-scripture/comment-page-1/#comment-62274</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerico's flower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jan 2012 16:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yehaveheard.com/?p=137#comment-62274</guid>
		<description>The christmas tradition and custom is the work of CUNNING man.
Read with your eyes open or you will be SLING out of the land with your customs and traditions.
Jeremiah 10.
Christmas is the Saturnalia with a different coat,you worship satan with Christ name.
Go read what debauchery was done during the Saturnalia festival.
How can you beleive in the Bible and continue with such disgusting practice.
Indeed the Lord stated &quot;they worship me with their lips but their heart is far from me&quot;.
&quot;They will say Lord we have preached in your name and healed and casted out devils in your name...&quot; and the Lord will say &quot;Depart from me I know you not&quot;. There will be crying and knashing of teeth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The christmas tradition and custom is the work of CUNNING man.<br />
Read with your eyes open or you will be SLING out of the land with your customs and traditions.<br />
Jeremiah 10.<br />
Christmas is the Saturnalia with a different coat,you worship satan with Christ name.<br />
Go read what debauchery was done during the Saturnalia festival.<br />
How can you beleive in the Bible and continue with such disgusting practice.<br />
Indeed the Lord stated &#8220;they worship me with their lips but their heart is far from me&#8221;.<br />
&#8220;They will say Lord we have preached in your name and healed and casted out devils in your name&#8230;&#8221; and the Lord will say &#8220;Depart from me I know you not&#8221;. There will be crying and knashing of teeth.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Answering Gothard defenders, part 1 by Chris Crady</title>
		<link>http://www.yehaveheard.com/2011/03/answering-gothard-defenders-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-57487</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Crady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2011 05:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yehaveheard.com/?p=1020#comment-57487</guid>
		<description>But Gothard teaches that grace is merited, directly denying the true definition of grace as unmerited favor.  THAT IS LEGALISM!  How do you defend that?  How is this Biblical grace?  The Apostle Paul would denounce Gothard&#039;s teaching in the same way he did the false teachers in Galatians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Gothard teaches that grace is merited, directly denying the true definition of grace as unmerited favor.  THAT IS LEGALISM!  How do you defend that?  How is this Biblical grace?  The Apostle Paul would denounce Gothard&#8217;s teaching in the same way he did the false teachers in Galatians.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Answering Gothard defenders, part 1 by Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.yehaveheard.com/2011/03/answering-gothard-defenders-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-55812</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2011 15:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yehaveheard.com/?p=1020#comment-55812</guid>
		<description>I am currently watching and working through the Basic Life Principles seminar with my fiance, and contrary to what you and most other reports on the internet seem to be saying, I am not finding Bill Gothard to be guilty of massive “twisting” scripture, aside from in perhaps a small minority of cases. I find that there seems to be a lot of angry energy towards him based on 2 things. 1: cases where people who “followed” his teachings were harmed, and 2: instances in which he makes a claim that is not particularly Biblical. While these are both valid concerns, these concerns themselves ALSO need to be taken into context. First, as I already said, in the course I am working through there is quite a bit of scriptural cross referencing, and most of it from the NT. I am only left to conclude that, from my experiences, the people criticizing his principles as a whole on lack of scriptural accuracy are committing the same err that non Christians do towards Christianity as a whole, which is to fail to see the forest for the trees. They criticize Christianity, as well as God, based off of either the fundamental failings of a vocal minority, or the surface level failings of the majority. And as a former outsider to Christianity myself, that is exactly what I used to do as well. Not a single Christian exists that doesn’t have a mix of Biblically well supported notions and their own personal extrapolations. Next, with regards to those purportedly harmed by his teachings, one thing I have noticed in ALL anecdotes used to show that his teachings can be harmful is that the supposed Gothard adherents don’t actually follow important aspects of his teachings. The parents in a harmed family don’t forgive or offer grace, as Gothard goes into detail about doing. They don’t apologize either. This is my own personal problem with the majority of criticisms of Gothard that I have been reading, and it can be summed up with the overuse of a single term: legalism. Again and again, the claim is that Gothard is legalistic. The truth is however, if you would actually care to go through his Basic Life Principles course, that he is not. He states quite clearly that salvation is obtained by faith alone. Multiple times in fact. That is not legalism. The “Principles” are not there for salvation, and he makes no claims that they are non-optional for salvation. If people take them that way, then of course they will harm their family, friends, business, etc… They will look at themselves as the elite and others as less holy, and fail to offer grace, which is poisonous. His claims of them being non-optional are purely with regard to living a life free of misery in this world. The fault is not in Gothard’s basic teaching (despite the disagreements that I as well have with some of his views), but with people’s selective following of them. It isn’t any different than understanding that people not understanding calculus is not a problem with calculus itself. To close with a few examples, one of the topics he covered in the seminar is the principle of suffering. He claims that you should thank God when you are undergoing a trial in your life. Now, of course this is not “required” for salvation, but it states quite plainly in the NT that you should “give God thanks in ALL things”. Why is this? Why does the Bible strongly recommend this principle? Because if you do not, then you not only risk becoming bitter towards God for your misfortunes, but you miss an opportunity to develop character and will have a greater chance of letting the problems of the world drag you down. This is no different than the idea behind optimism, a lesson that I had to learn the hard way before I became a Christian. Another example is the principle of ownership. I don’t think very many Christians would object to the notion that we don’t actually own anything. God owns stuff. Our bodies are not even really our own, but are temples for the holy spirit. When Gothard claims that you should treat things as though God owns them, there is a good reason for that. If you treat your room as though it is God’s, then you will better take care of it and keep it more orderly. If you treat your finances as though your money is God’s, then you will take care of them. Similarly to the wonderful book “Blue Like Jazz” (which is even written by an author with a considerably more liberal worldview), in which the author explains that he never understood the point of tithing until he started actually just doing it regularly. He found that doing so made him less materialistic and more financially organized. It forced him to budget, and forced him to look at his money as God’s. Anyway, the caveat here is that Gothard does not ask people to do such out of blind obedience, but out of love to God for the grace he has given you. Because you love God for his act of mercy, then you should dwell within that grace, and use the freedom that gives you to at least attempt to live a principled life. If you truly love God, then you will truly love your neighbor, for you realize that they are God’s creation as well. If you truly love God, then you will treat your belongings as God’s. If you truly love God, then you will thank him in all things. The point here is that, as you pointed out, viewing Gothard’s principles through the lens of grace can be a good thing. And the fact is that Gothard DOES teach grace. Both personal grace between you and God, and in you extending grace towards others. That is not legalism.
One more thing to add is that Gothard does not promote one sex above the other.  The Bible itself has been accused of this same thing simply for saying that a man in a marriage is the head.  An analogy might be &quot;two people cannot drive a car at the same time, but if the other person is navigating or managing other duties, that person is not &quot;less&quot; than the driver.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am currently watching and working through the Basic Life Principles seminar with my fiance, and contrary to what you and most other reports on the internet seem to be saying, I am not finding Bill Gothard to be guilty of massive “twisting” scripture, aside from in perhaps a small minority of cases. I find that there seems to be a lot of angry energy towards him based on 2 things. 1: cases where people who “followed” his teachings were harmed, and 2: instances in which he makes a claim that is not particularly Biblical. While these are both valid concerns, these concerns themselves ALSO need to be taken into context. First, as I already said, in the course I am working through there is quite a bit of scriptural cross referencing, and most of it from the NT. I am only left to conclude that, from my experiences, the people criticizing his principles as a whole on lack of scriptural accuracy are committing the same err that non Christians do towards Christianity as a whole, which is to fail to see the forest for the trees. They criticize Christianity, as well as God, based off of either the fundamental failings of a vocal minority, or the surface level failings of the majority. And as a former outsider to Christianity myself, that is exactly what I used to do as well. Not a single Christian exists that doesn’t have a mix of Biblically well supported notions and their own personal extrapolations. Next, with regards to those purportedly harmed by his teachings, one thing I have noticed in ALL anecdotes used to show that his teachings can be harmful is that the supposed Gothard adherents don’t actually follow important aspects of his teachings. The parents in a harmed family don’t forgive or offer grace, as Gothard goes into detail about doing. They don’t apologize either. This is my own personal problem with the majority of criticisms of Gothard that I have been reading, and it can be summed up with the overuse of a single term: legalism. Again and again, the claim is that Gothard is legalistic. The truth is however, if you would actually care to go through his Basic Life Principles course, that he is not. He states quite clearly that salvation is obtained by faith alone. Multiple times in fact. That is not legalism. The “Principles” are not there for salvation, and he makes no claims that they are non-optional for salvation. If people take them that way, then of course they will harm their family, friends, business, etc… They will look at themselves as the elite and others as less holy, and fail to offer grace, which is poisonous. His claims of them being non-optional are purely with regard to living a life free of misery in this world. The fault is not in Gothard’s basic teaching (despite the disagreements that I as well have with some of his views), but with people’s selective following of them. It isn’t any different than understanding that people not understanding calculus is not a problem with calculus itself. To close with a few examples, one of the topics he covered in the seminar is the principle of suffering. He claims that you should thank God when you are undergoing a trial in your life. Now, of course this is not “required” for salvation, but it states quite plainly in the NT that you should “give God thanks in ALL things”. Why is this? Why does the Bible strongly recommend this principle? Because if you do not, then you not only risk becoming bitter towards God for your misfortunes, but you miss an opportunity to develop character and will have a greater chance of letting the problems of the world drag you down. This is no different than the idea behind optimism, a lesson that I had to learn the hard way before I became a Christian. Another example is the principle of ownership. I don’t think very many Christians would object to the notion that we don’t actually own anything. God owns stuff. Our bodies are not even really our own, but are temples for the holy spirit. When Gothard claims that you should treat things as though God owns them, there is a good reason for that. If you treat your room as though it is God’s, then you will better take care of it and keep it more orderly. If you treat your finances as though your money is God’s, then you will take care of them. Similarly to the wonderful book “Blue Like Jazz” (which is even written by an author with a considerably more liberal worldview), in which the author explains that he never understood the point of tithing until he started actually just doing it regularly. He found that doing so made him less materialistic and more financially organized. It forced him to budget, and forced him to look at his money as God’s. Anyway, the caveat here is that Gothard does not ask people to do such out of blind obedience, but out of love to God for the grace he has given you. Because you love God for his act of mercy, then you should dwell within that grace, and use the freedom that gives you to at least attempt to live a principled life. If you truly love God, then you will truly love your neighbor, for you realize that they are God’s creation as well. If you truly love God, then you will treat your belongings as God’s. If you truly love God, then you will thank him in all things. The point here is that, as you pointed out, viewing Gothard’s principles through the lens of grace can be a good thing. And the fact is that Gothard DOES teach grace. Both personal grace between you and God, and in you extending grace towards others. That is not legalism.<br />
One more thing to add is that Gothard does not promote one sex above the other.  The Bible itself has been accused of this same thing simply for saying that a man in a marriage is the head.  An analogy might be &#8220;two people cannot drive a car at the same time, but if the other person is navigating or managing other duties, that person is not &#8220;less&#8221; than the driver.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mormonism: what they mean isn&#8217;t what Christians hear by Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.yehaveheard.com/2010/09/mormonism-what-they-mean-isnt-what-christians-hear/comment-page-1/#comment-55811</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2011 15:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yehaveheard.com/?p=759#comment-55811</guid>
		<description>Hmm, that was supposed to get posted in the article about Bill Gothard.  Not sure how I ended up posting in this article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, that was supposed to get posted in the article about Bill Gothard.  Not sure how I ended up posting in this article.</p>
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